A Leading Figure In The New Apostolic ReformationMy, that is a bold new idea!
A new charismatic Christian movement that seeks to take dominion over politics, business and culture in preparation for the end times and Jesus' return is becoming more of a presence in American politics.
The leaders are considered apostles and prophets, gifted by God for this role.By whom? I mean, Marshall Applewhite was considered a prophet too. Hell, both David Koresh and Sun Myung Moon were considered to be Jesus Christ, although presumably not by each other.
Several apostles affiliated with the movement helped organize or spoke at Rick Perry's August prayer rally, The Response.Things became sticky when The Situation demanded The Right to rebut the Response.
The international "apostolic and prophetic" movement has been dubbed the New Apostolic Reformation by C. Peter Wagner, who has become one of its leaders. He describes himself as the first person who noticed the movement, gave a name to it and started writing books about it.And under the You Break It, You Bought It rule implemented by curio shops and the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, C. Peter has to take care of the movement now, feed it, pick up its poop, and scrub it with tomato juice if it ever has a wacky, sitcom-like encounter with a skunk.
Interview Highlights On the tsunami and nuclear meltdown in Japan being connected to the emperor of Japan having sex with the sun goddess
"That happened many, many years ago, and that created a spiritual atmosphere over Japan which was an atmosphere ruled by the powers of darkness. The sun goddess is not a very nice lady.Smoking hot, though.
The sun goddess is a power of darknessReally? I can't tell if that's irony or just bad branding.
...which is headed up by the kingdom of Satan.It's actually one of the few Ponzi schemes Republicans don't want to privatize.
And so the sun goddess wants natural disasters to come to Japan.Starting with Cheap Trick.
Sometimes the hand of God, which is more powerful, will prevent them. And when he decides to prevent them and when he doesn't is far beyond anything that we can predict."It depends what's on TV. Here's a hint: if you're an evil star god with plans to bring a devastating Tsunami to Japan, you might want to schedule it during Breaking Bad.
"But in this case, God could have prevented that tsunami and the destruction, but he didn't. He just took his hand off and allowed these natural forces to work. And one of the background pieces of information is Japan is under control of the sun goddess."Just because the Emperor slept with her once, like a thousand years ago, she's still nailing his home with earthquakes, tidal waves, and nuclear meltdowns?! What's next, boiling a rabbit?
On Alice Patterson, a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation and one of the leadership team members at Rick Perry's prayer rally, saying on stage at the rally that the Democratic Party is a demon structure
"I personally would not endorse each one of her statements and especially the statement about the Democratic Party being demonized, any more than the Republican Party is. I mean, I believe there's a lot of demonic control over Congress in general that needs to be dispersed."As Josh Fruhlinger (@jfruh), the Comics Curmudgeon said on Twitter: "Bipartisan!"
The only question that remains, is how the demons in Congress are going to be dispersed, and who's going to pay for it? Can we just have the Sergeant-at-Arms fill one of those Flit guns with holy water and walk down the aisle spritzing the Members (in which case this can probably be charged to Security, or Maintenance) or are we going to have to call in pricey outside contractors, like a licensed Apostle, or a State-Bonded Prophet.
"As we talk, in Oklahoma City there is an annual meeting of a professional society called the Apostolic — called the International Society of Deliverance Ministers, which my wife and I founded many years ago. ... This is a society of a large number, a couple hundred, of Christian ministers who are in the ministry of deliverance. Their seven-day-a-week occupation is casting demons out of people. And they have professional expertise in this...It's a trade school, but they also offer Associates degrees in Refrigeration, Accounting, Computer Programming, Gun Repair, Necromancy, and Hotel/Motel Management.
My wife is one of them. She's written a whole book called How to Cast Out Demons.The secret lies in tying a good dry fly (the book was originally titled Demon Fishing in America, but the publisher changed it after being threatened with legal action by both Richard Brautigan and Babe Winkelman).
And I don't do that much. Once in a while when I get in a corner, I might. But that's — that's been her ministry. And so I've been very, very close to that for years. We've been married for 60 years."And at an average rate of 5 demons per month, that's 3,600 out-castings, but somehow C. Peter and his wife Doris make it work. For one thing, she's scrupulous about never bringing her work home with her, because pea soup stains are hard to get out of shag carpeting.
On people in American politics being possessed by demons
"We don't like to use the word possessed because that means they don't have any power of their own. We like to use the word afflicted or, technical term, demonized."Whoa! How about you lay off the scientific jargon and speak English, Professor?
But there are people who — yes, who are — who are directly affected by demons, not only in politics, but also in the arts, in the media and religion in the Christian church."He's right. After finishing this post, I'm thinking about going out to the kitchen and getting afflicted with Demon Rum.
On demon identification
"Sometimes they know. Sometimes the demon has identified itself to the person. Sometimes you can tell by manifestations of superhuman, unhuman behavior."
"Sometimes you can tell by skilled deliverance ministers. My wife has a five-page questionnaire that she has people fill out before she ministers to them."It's called the "Voight-Kampff Test."
So she asks the kind of questions that a medical doctor would ask to find out, to diagnose an illness. So she actually does diagnostic work on people to discover not only if they have demons, but what those demons might be."Demons, as any deliverance minister can tell you, come in different flavors. So for instance, Mrs. Wagner might diagnose a patient thusly: "I'm sorry to inform you, Mr. Jones, that you are afflicted with demons. On the bright side, they have Crunchberries."
On homosexualityIt's the result of a demon with...pizazz!
"I do not think homosexuality is the will of God. I don't think it's God's plan A."
On whether other religions and nonbelieving Christians are demonicSo if you're planning a trip to Katmandu, figure on coming home infested with demons. Granted, they're easier to get rid of than bedbugs, but the airlines will charge you for the extra weight.
"Well, it means they're not part of the kingdom of heaven. It means they're part of the kingdom of darkness. An apostle, a friend of mine in Nepal, once told me that every Christian believer in Nepal that he knows of has been delivered from demons.
On what he means when he describes the NAR's mission as taking dominion over business, government, media, arts and entertainment, education, family and religionWow. I remember when it was just a four-page supplement in the LA Times.
"In terms of taking dominion, we don't — we wouldn't want to — we use the word dominion, but we wouldn't want to say that we have dominion as if we're the owners or we're the rulers of, let's say, the arts and entertainment mountain.
What we strive to do and our goal is to have people in the arts and entertainment mountain who are committed to the kingdom of God, so therefore, we use the adjective there — kingdom-minded believers — and our goal is to try to have as many kingdom-minded believers in positions of influence in the arts and entertainment mountain as possible. And the reason for that is, to help bring the blessings of heaven to all those in the arts and entertainment mountain."Later, we'll move on to the Sports knoll and the Business hillock.
On dominionism and acquiring leadership positions in governmentSo while you may think your State Cosmetology Licensing Board mountain, or your County Waste Management Department mountain are completely secular, in fact they are lousy with apostles.
"We believe in working with any — with whatever political system there is. In America, it's democracy and working with the administrative, judicial and legislative branches of the government, the way they are, but to have as many kingdom-minded people in influence in each one of these branches of government as possible so that the blessings of the kingdom will come."
On finding out that Ted Haggard, his World Prayer Center co-founder, had used drugs and had sex with men"Yes, Ted and I used to snort meth off the taut buttocks of male hustlers, but we were always scrupulous about each taking a separate cheek."
"I don't think I've still recovered. Just by a matter of history, a few years before that happened, my wife, Doris, and I left the World Prayer Center, turned it back to Ted and went on a different route here in Colorado Springs, so we were not closely associated.
On spiritual mapping to cast demons out of citiesThe Power of Christ compels you! Unless you're a Demonic Regional Manager.
"When you talk about demons over cities, we're talking about what — sometimes what we refer to as territorial spirits, and they're more high-ranking spirits in the hierarchy of darkness and they're more powerful and they require different approaches, and it's not as easy as commanding them to leave in the name of Jesus.
So sometimes...there has been bloodshed in that city that needs to be repented of, there has been idolatry in the city that has ruined the land. There's been immorality that needs to be repented of ... There are certain individuals in our whole movement that have special gifts for doing that, and they're helping lead the way in weakening the power of the spirits. We don't believe we can kill demons and sometimes we don't believe we can completely get 'em out, get 'em away from a city, but we can reduce their power.Mainly through voter fraud.
On Thomas Muthee praying over Sarah Palin at the Wasilla Assembly of God, and asking for Jesus to protect her from the spirit of witchcraft
"What Thomas was probably doing, and he and I are friends also, what he was probably doing was speculating that there would be some people who practiced witchcraft and other forms of the occult who would try and take Sarah Palin down through certain rituals or curses or other techniques that witches have and try to destroy her through those things. And I think Thomas was praying a shield of protection around Sarah so that she would not be affected by them."Well, there goes that excuse. Personally, I don't think Palin should have allowed the pastor to Sealcoat her against witchcraft, because then she could have blamed her gaffes on Fairuza Balk, or Christine O'Donnell.